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I have found myself musing the nature of the relationship between media and Lit fandom over the last few days spent at eastercon.

It was an enjoyable weekend - but I felt it had to work hard to be one. There’s no Bid for 2007 yet - Some people are saying it’s the end of Eastercon.

On reflection I don’t agree - I think that between now and Glasgow next year (if not sooner) someone will step up. I am almost tempted myself as some of you know, but I have several reservations, although the feelings I have expressed to you still stand - but I don’t think now is the time. EC needs to evolve but I think it needs to work out which way for itself, I have some fairly drastic ideas, but I'm not convinced EC is ready for them (In fact I know its not). Who am I to judge? No one special but I am regular attendee (not every year - but certainly most since Confabulation in the docklands in 95 (or 94 - I can’t remember) and 4 or 5 before that over the previous 10 years.

The problem is always going to be how to change for the better without losing your core attendees - and that’s something that is going to be very hard for EC. But if it doesn't it is going to continue to shrink - it may take a few years or it could be as soon as 2007. EC doesn’t market itself - it takes the 'If we run it they will come' attitude. It needs new blood (like so many other conventions - it is by no means the only con guilty of this - certain established Media Cons take the same stance and have the same problem). New Blood - New Attendees - found from new sources. EC can be difficult for an 'Outsider' to crack. It has all the right ingredients - a good selection of relevant guests, several streams and lots of panels and the games and 'fun items'. But it can be difficult to get accepted into the established 'cliques' - This con has been running a long time after all and many of the attendee’s have been coming for 30 years plus. While most are not rude (though some are) many are very disinterested in embracing new people – or even engaging in conversation with them.

The main thing that needs to be addressed I think is the negativity some have towards the inclusion of a media strand (something that is still minimal). Should EC become a media con? Certainly not. That said having a panel called 'Have Media fans fecked Fandom' may not be the way to go (incidentally the conclusion was 'No'). The inclusion of more media related panels - (but still small scale ones) can help bring more fans in to the true SF fold - god only knows nowadays people need to be encouraged to read - Have items that will help bring these people in and make the con more accessible to newbie’s - more smaller interactive items - two of the most enjoyable panels for me over the weekend were the ;Have I got books for you' and 'SF Charades panels' - oddly enough an awful lot of redemption faces were at these panels. Also the Galactica and HHTGH panels were literally overflowing from their room – the interest is there - so give the media strand more depth.

Sorry – Its probably not my place to go on like this but I class myself as a Sci-Fi/fantasy fan. I don’t make a distinction between Lit and Media and why should I ?

No, EC shouldn’t become a media con – We have Redemption which does that well (and embraces the lit side too). But it needs to realise it needs to sell it’s self and make people outside the established con circuit aware of its existence. Bring people in and give them a good time they will come back – and bring their friends. The Exec of Eastercon always do a sterling job - and I take my hat off to anyone who takes a con on and succeeds (i'm wayyy too lazy). As i said this is just my opinion and I have no answers.

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The trouble with running a con in the London area is the cost: there aren't many hotels in London with the right number of rooms and the right mix of function space to make an Eastercon work, and those that there are are too expensive.

Hence you end up on a motorway junction in the middle of nowhere....

Actually, there is *one* annual SF con in London: Picocon. But it's traditionally got a slightly poor programme and, in recent years, there's been very little movement of people from ICSF to mainstream fandom, something that I regularly nag them about.

I agree on the London matter - While in theory a nice central location is good (OK - So London's not central for every one - but it is easy to get to, and to some degree this applies to most big cities anyway) space and expence are the problems - Its even hard to find a room to use in a pub in London on a regular basis as 'Ton regulars will attest.

Even the modest media sf pub meet I help host has space issues and we seldom go over 20 people.

I don't think a move to a london venue is the answer - In fact I'm a big fan of Hinckley - while there are complaints about the food (although the quality does vary - same menu 'ish at Red but generally the food was better prepared) i've had a lot worse at other hotels for a lot more money.I like the venue generally - what with 3 eastercons, 2 diskworlds and 1 redemption (and I think a few others) its becoming something of a regular venue.

Oh and welcome to my LJ, Pleased to meet you.
Run for your life

I actually like Hinckley, as a con venue, but the food is a big problem. They're better than they used to be (I remember when they tried to set up a till at one end of the food serving thing, which was Just Horrible).

I shall run away, now!

I've always remebered the Friday Buffet in 01 ....

Just meat meat and more meat ....

Now as a carnivore I wasnt worried - but most of the group I was with was :)

I think it was in 01 I was given the title 'The Anti Veggie'

In fact I think that was when the till was on the serving thing too.

I know - that's been the argument against for years; that and the fact that the London hotels don't need our business, so we can't bargain them down and when we have gone, the service has been awful (although I don't remember it being that bad in Docklands in '95).

However, I'm starting to think that the cost is a little bit of a red herring. Media cons charge much more for membership than we do, and the hotel room rates are the biggest expense and for many the cost of transport is almost as large. A few years back, a possible London bid was abandoned in favour of somewhere else (I don't remember where) because that's what the people at the bid session wanted. They had their own short term interests at heart, and I can't blame them.

If we want Eastercons to thrive, we have to bite the bullet and hold a con somewhere near London. It doesn't have to be central London, I'm sure the costs would be prohibitive, but it does need to be somewhere in the South East near London where people can get to on a day's outing. Croydon anyone?

I liked the Brittania too - but that was a long time ago and the Docklands have become far more accessable now than back then which will have changed the situation.

It's an interesting issue - is the percentage of people likely to attend that much higher for people that live in london ? I'm not sure it is ... Any thoughts anyone?

Media cons charge much more for membership than we do

Yes, but they're *media cons*... [g]

True, but if people (well, media fans anyway) are prepared to pay that, we shouldn't shy away from charging a bit more for memberships if we have to. The more established fans do tend to be better off (unless they have kids or become unemployed).

To get around that, we can always give reduced memberships to students and unemployed (and families?!); as affluent members of society many conrunners forget how poor students and those newly "enmortgaged" can be.

Redemption also allows the refunding of memberships if you can't go, up until a couple of months out. This would be an excellent way of encouraging people to sign up earlier, albeit it makes the budgeting harder.

I don't think its so much that people are prepared to pay - they just have to. The problem with these Actor based cons is the cost of the guests - Some times these guys charge a LOT of money - frightening in some cases just for a short appearance. Fan stream style cons tend to have a lot cheaper guests - plus are not run for profit like SFX and Starfury. Redemption charges a lot less than these - in fact is cheaper (i think - not sure without checking) than EasterCon.

Does Redemption have the gradually-increasing memberships fees that Eastercons have?

Yep - as a matter of fact it does.

It gets back to the motive, again: passion vs profit.

The common view of media cons is of the for-profit one. Both the organisers and the guests are there to make a buck, so everything is charged for, and everything is geared around ensuring that there's no distraction from queuing up to pay.

The from-passion model's different. The organisers want all members (including themselves) to have fun, and try to arrange that, going for enjoyment rather than profit. It reduces the choice of available guests a lot, but makes those that are available far more valued.

I fear that, for outsiders, all science fiction cons are tarred with the same brush, and it will not be easy to remove the tarnish. It's the same issue that leads to several notable writers, both within and outside the genre, disdaining the term "science fiction".

I know there's a "[g]" there, but...

It struck me today that there's a great similarity between fans who say, "It's media, so it's not *real* sf," and critics who say, "It's sci-fi, so it's not a *real* novel."

If you want sout east venue, there is always the Radisson at Heathrow that held Eastercon in 1996 (I think) and has had various media cons since. I know that hotel has its problems, but there have been some good conventions there.

When I was first considering bidding for an Eastercon I did a lot of footwork and spent a lot of time on line.

We are an awkward size: if we were below 500 there are a number of city hotels we could use. But we are between 500 and 800 and that, for most cities, means more than one hotel. If you think back to Manchester, people were *very* unhappy. Glagow will (hopefully) work because it is a campus.

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